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09/26/2011

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Brendan Saloner

Contrast these two different lines of reasoning:
1. I would rather not be coerced to pay taxes in order to give my neighbor a stimulus check, but I recognize that the government policy authorizing this tax and transfer was democratically decided upon by elected politicians pursuing a policy that they believed was just and effective.
2. I would rather not be coerced to pay taxes in order to give my neighbor a stimulus check, but I recognize that the state creates specific duties to fellow citizens, whom I value and care about, and that requires me to contribute to a set of policies that over the long run will tend to represent the collective will of the people.

I take it that these are two very similar ways of reasoning about our duties to support policies that are coercive, and which may not represent our preferred policies. The difference is that 1) appeals primarily to duties we owe to a state qua a special relationship with our government and its elected officials, 2) appeals primarily to duties we owe to fellow citizens, which are mediated by the state, but have their own intrinsic value. Is this distinction clear? Some of what you say seems to straddle these two categories.

Bill Gardner

Nice distinction, Brendan.

Paul Kelleher

Thanks for the comment, Brendan. First, I'm uncomfortable making this about stimulus checks. Stimulus checks are intended in part to improve the aggregate economy, not just (and not necessarily primarily) the situations of those who receive them. Is it OK if we refer instead to, say, unemployment insurance or Medicaid coverage? I'm concerned here with policies that are designed primarily to help the individuals who receive the benefit, not policies that may help people in part because of its indirect effects.

Your distinction is useful, but I do not mean either (1) or (2). My point is that you acquire a duty of concern for your compatriots _even if (and perhaps in part because) you get the policies you want_. Each side of your distinction describes duties that emerge from the *content* of democratic decision-making: either the laws passed now by the majority or else the set of policies "that over the long run will tend to represent the collective will of the people." But duty of mutual concern that I'm arguing for derives not as much from the content of the general will as from the *manner* in which the general will (whatever it is at any given time) is upheld and enforced. It is upheld by individuals giving their cooperation under coercive arrangements that they may disagree with. My view--and I agree this needs further argumentation--is that this deserves special recognition, because it is a contribution of a special kind. I think this is the case *even if* there is a general duty to obey the law. Here's an analogy: even if a parent has a duty to care for a child, complying with that duty, and doing so in a manner that that leads to a good upbringing, calls for special recognition from the adult child. Yes it was the parent's duty, but parents make so many sacrifices and invest so much love even when things are hard and when corners could be cut, that a reciprocal form of concern is called for.

Although I think this is a helpful analogy, I don't want to rely too much on it, if only because it gives this false impression that I think of a society as one big family. Nor I do claim to have elucidated the *magnitude* of the mutual concern I believe we have an obligation to display. Right now I'm just trying to understand it's nature and origins.

Let me know if that clarifies things or only makes them more opaque.

Paul Kelleher

I suppose another key weakness in the parent/child analogy is that children tend already to care for their parents, whereas I'm building an argument for why they *should* care about their parents. It is a key feature of my argument that it goes through even if no one ever develops strong fellow-feeling for their compatriots. The obligation is to display concern for another's needs, and this can be done through support for various social insurance policies. The obligation is *not* to become the sort of person who sees his compatriot's good as part and parcel of his own. I think that demands to much of people. (This is a difference between my view and Miller's view.)

Brendan Saloner

A thought about your analogy: I suppose a child that consistently and willfully disobeyed or acted counter to her parents could create strains of commitment between the parent and child. Imagine this in the case of older teens or young adults that consistently pursue policies that they know that their parents will detest. This could reasonably give parents less grounds to value their parent-child relationship, and can limit the amount of aid that parents are compelled to give their children.

I want to clarify something (and then should read Miller's book), you say that the duty of mutual concern derives "from the *manner* in which the general will (whatever it is at any given time) is upheld and enforced. It is upheld by individuals giving their cooperation under coercive arrangements that they may disagree with." So is it open to a libertarian or some other person who wants pay less taxes to withdraw their support from society? They can't in practice (except moving to some other country), but doesn't your theory need an opt-out to make participation meaningful?

Paul Kelleher

As I said, I don't want to place much weight on the parent/child analogy. I shouldn't have even used it (I thought I had learned that lesson, but I am weak!). I really did want to use it to make one _very narrow_ point, which is: even if a parent has a duty to provide for a child, one deserves special recognition for fulfilling that duty. A child who was brought well should not say "I don't owe you any special thanks since you were just doing your duty." That is my point.

As for an opt-out clause, I take it your point is that although I claim we should reward strained cooperation by showing mutual concern, strained cooperation is only "meaningful" (your word) if it's voluntarily given. Is that right? I didn't want to commit myself to a view on opt-outs. If one allows opt-outs, then those who stay could give the sort of cooperation you think meaningful. But if opting out is not allowed, or if it's too burdensome to be a genuine option (as I agree it is/would be), then I'm not sure I see why cooperation within those constraints cannot be meaningful in the relevant way. Think of a culture that may emerge among a population of unjustly imprisoned or isolated individuals. Are you saying duties of mutual concern between members may be incompatible with such a culture, on account of the involuntary nature of their confinement?

Feel free to take this into email if you like.

Brendan Saloner

Thanks much! I should have avoided returning to the parent-child analogy.

The last sentence of your comment is interesting:
"Think of a culture that may emerge among a population of unjustly imprisoned or isolated individuals. Are you saying duties of mutual concern between members may be incompatible with such a culture, on account of the involuntary nature of their confinement?"

Yes and no. Yes, these people can (and likely will) feel a strong sense of mutual concern and a desire to support one another. Any duties that these people feel to one another, however, will not be duties that they enter into through the state. Some prisoners may, for example, organize their own system of support (save broth for the sick, band together to fight against renegade prisoners and abusive guards), but no, I don't think that one can say that any prisoner has a duty to enter into such a scheme of mutual support, and any efforts made by the illegitimate "state" (i.e.) the guards to force them to care for one another would also be illegitimate. For institutional duties (taxes, military service, etc.) to emerge, people must be constrained by rules that they could not reasonably reject.

Paul Kelleher

I think of the duty I'm exploring as a function of two elements: the coercion I help impose, and the strained cooperation (strained in part, but not exclusively, by the fact of coercion) that I receive from others. I take it you agree the second element can exist in the imprisoned community. Ok, good. That's a start.

You are correct that I must initially be justified in coercing others through the state for all of this to get off the ground. I don't deny that. But does there need to be an opt out in order for my coercion to be justified? I don't believe so, although I have not yet argued for this. Dialectically, the Friedman is useful because he's a libertarian-type who nevertheless views a great deal of state coercion as legitimate. But of course I don't want to settle for merely dialectically successful arguments. So I need something more.

As you know, in addressing this problem, Rawls appealed to a "natural duty of justice": he believed there is a natural duty we all have to support just institutions. This enables him to argue that *if* a society governed by his principles is in fact just, then coercing people to obey is fine, since they already have a natural duty to obey (Rawls also needs the premise that the natural duty is coercively enforceable.) This is in general Miller's approach as well, I believe (although he passes over it quickly).

It also seems to be Scanlon's view, which I bring up because of your last five words. Nothing you say in the last comment is inconsistent with the claim that there is just one reasonable approach to self-governance in the imprisoned community. Even if some prisoners wish to band together to fight against abusive guards, there may be good reason to think permitting such gangs will make a very bad situation much worse. It is possible, then, that no one can reasonably object to an arrangement that forbids some forms of risky activity, but nevertheless leaves scope for something like an evolving general will on other key issues. So although you appeal to Scanlon's formula, nothing yet shows that an inescapable and coercive framework within the community will always be reasonable rejectable. (I'm here using that Scanlonian language, even though I don't find it very helpful in the main.) As Scanlon notes in his review of Anarchy, State, and Utopia:

"[For Rawls,] Where there is a moral requirement to comply with nonvoluntary institutions such as the state, this requirement derives (via what Rawls calls the Natural Duty of Justice) merely from the fact that those institutions are just."

Go back now to the dialectical argument. I was letting Friedman do some of this work for me, since he agrees that it would be socially disastrous not to have a central bank that can help smooth out the business cycle and act as lender of last resort. If he is right, then a society that uses coercion to enforce central banking policy might not be reasonably rejectable. Does this mean others have a natural duty of justice to support this society? I don't know; I don't have a view on that. But I see no reason yet to think that the mere fact of coercion, which is needed to preserve arrangements that ward of social disaster, makes a situation reasonably rejectable by those who dislike the arrangement.

Thanks for pressing; this is helpful.

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